Deacan's surgery is coming up

Well Deacan's surgery is coming up, today is Saturday and his surgery is on Tuesday, I have the whole day off work for it, though if he is ok and is fine come the afternoon i am going to go in,

im a tad bit scared with it, though i know he will be fine as he is strong and is a fighter, though the number one thing that scared me was that the doctors said that because he has had a chest infection in the past 4 weeks there is a higher chance of him having a bronciolspasam (sorry about spelling) and that is what is scaring me the most,

Daniel and I are allowed to walk down he hall with him before he goes into surgery though i get really freaked out with it, and i dont want to stress Deacan out any more than what he is going to be,

I know that my hormones are going to be everywhere and then also seeing my little baby in pain and not being able to take the pain away is going to be hurtful as well, though the main thing is that he wont be in pain for long (a couple of days at the most) and the hospital will send him home on strong pain killers (for his age) though i will keep you all updated with what happens with it any how

Deacan's Surgery

Well Deacan goes in for his surgery on the 24th May so 2 months away, I'm really nervous about it for him, its only cosmetic surgery though still surgery is surgery  and it all has its risks

SO i had a look on line and this is the information that i could find on it



this is what i found

Hypospadias repair is surgery to correct a birth defect in boys in which the urethra (the tube that carries urine from the bladder to outside the body) does not end at the tip of the penis. Instead, it ends on the underside. In more severe cases, the urethra opens at the middle or bottom of the penis, or even in or behind the scrotum.
See also: Hypospadias

Description

Hypospadias repair is usually done when boys are between 6 months and 2 years old. It is done on an outpatient basis. It rarely requires an overnight stay in the hospital.
Boys who are born with hypospadias are not circumcised at birth, so their foreskin can be used for the repair during surgery.
Before surgery, your child will receive general anesthesia. This will make him sleep and unable to feel pain during surgery. Mild defects may be repaired in one procedure. Severe defects may need two or more procedures.
The surgeon will use a small piece of foreskin or tissue from another site to create a tube that increases the length of your son's urethra. Extending the length of the urethra will allow it to open at the tip of the penis.
During surgery, the surgeon may place a catheter (tube) in the urethra to make it hold its new shape. The catheter may be sewn or fastened to the head of penis to keep it in place. It will be removed 1 - 2 weeks after surgery.
Most of the stitches (sutures) used during surgery will dissolve on their own and will not have to be removed later.

Why the Procedure is Performed

Hypospadias is one of the most common birth defects in boys. This surgery is performed on most boys who are born with hypospadias.
If repair is not done, your son may have:

• Problems controlling and directing his urine stream
• A curve in the penis during erection
• Problems with fertility

Surgery is NOT needed if the condition does not affect normal urination while standing, sexual function, or the deposit of semen.

Risks

Risks for any anesthesia are:

• Allergic reactions to medicines
• Breathing problems

Risks for any surgery are:

• Bleeding
• Blood clot
• Infection

Other risks for hypospadias:

• A hole that leaks urine (fistula)
• Large blood clot (hematoma)
• Scarring or narrowing of the repaired urethra

Before the Procedure

Your child's surgeon may ask for a complete medical history and physical exam of your child before the procedure.
Always tell your child's doctor or nurse:

• What drugs your child is taking
• Include drugs, herbs, and vitamins you bought without a prescription.
• Tell them about any allergies your child has to medicine, latex, tape, or skin cleaner.

Ask your child's doctor which drugs your child should still take on the day of surgery.
On the day of the surgery:

• Your child will usually be asked not to drink or eat anything after midnight the night before surgery.
• Give your child any drugs your doctor told you to give your child with a small sip of water.
• Your child's doctor or nurse will tell you when to arrive for the surgery.
• The doctor will make sure your child is healthy enough for surgery. This means your son should not have any signs of illness. If your son is ill, the surgery may be delayed.

After the Procedure

Right after surgery, your son's penis will be taped securely to his belly so that it does not move.
Often, a bulky dressing or plastic cup is placed over the penis to protect the surgical area. A urinary catheter (a tube used to drain urine from the bladder) will exit the dressing to allow urine to flow freely into the diaper.
Your child will be encouraged to drink fluids so that he will urinate. Urinating will keep pressure from building up in the urethra.
Your son may be given medicine to relieve pain.
You will probably be able to take your child home the same day as the surgery. If you live a long way from the hospital, you might want to stay in a hotel near the hospital the first night.

Outlook (Prognosis)

This surgery lasts a lifetime. Most children do well after this surgery. Your son's penis will look almost or completely normal. It will also work almost or completely normally.
If your child has a complicated hypospadias, he may need more operations to improve the penis' appearance or to repair a hole or narrowing in the urethra.
Follow-up visits with a urologist (a doctor who specializes in the treatment and surgery of the urinary system) may be needed once your son has healed from surgery. Sometimes a visit is needed when boys reach puberty

though Deacan's isn't this bad,  he was basically born with half a circumcision so he just needs to have that corrected, thats all i think they put on google the worse case scenarios 

What a week

Well all i can say is what a week, it feels like it has been non stop,


First off on Sunday i had my confirmation so i was happy about that, now i am a member of the church and i also received the gift of the spirit as well, I have joined the church chore (not sure spelling is right) so i need to see my doctor about giving me some women injections to make sure my voice goes back up as the steroid injections have made it drop and crack lol


My weight is now 47kgs i am very happy about that, i am going to be either signing up to a gym so i can start getting fit or i will be going for runs, no not to loose weight though just to get fit so i can do everyday things with out getting puffed,  also because all the weight i have put on has gone straight to my stomach not that i mind though my tummy looks like i am 4 months pregnant lol,




Kids are going well Jason is talking so much more now also is getting into trouble a lot more as well, Deacan is just about walking wont be long now for him either, he is starting to walk around furniture, and is standing all the time, though we still haven't gotten him into a sleep routine yet, he just doesn't want to stay asleep so its making it hard on everyone,


On another note Daniel has Quit smoking as well i am so very proud of him, today will be his second day with out one, though today i have been 3 weeks without a smoke or coffee, really starting to miss the coffee now though, 


any way better goes it just about 7am and daniel still isnt out of bed he is going to be late for work, and he will prolly get angry at me for not waking him up though i told him if he didnt get up then it wasnt my fault that he was late for work,.


Any way i will talk again soon


Sarah xx

Very Bad day

Things have just gone from bad to worse today, I really should not of gotten out of bed

To start of with i was pregnant it really was not planned as much as anyone says it really wasnt, we were using condoms or pulling out, and before anyone says anything about pulling out as a birth control method we really though it was, though guessing not though i had my beta lvl done on Wednesday I was 13 DPO and i got the results back today they were only 15, he said that it should of been higher as i was showing up on normally pregnancy test, I also told him that i was bleeding and that it was bright red and passing quite large clotts he said that i was miscarrying and that there was no point doing another Beta,
I really dont know how to feel to be honest i am upset over it though shocked at the same time, and i just feel empty, I was really starting to warm up to the idea of being a mum again, and i think Daniel was starting to warm up to the idea of being a dad again as well,

I think daniel told him mum today that I lost the baby, im pretty sure she would be happy over it, as she called me the other day when i told her that i was pregnant and ripped into me, she wasnt happy about it at all, she told/sternly asked me to have an abortion and i turned around and said NO straight out, then she asked how i would feel if i miscarried, I told her if i was under 12 weeks i would be upset though I would be as sad about it as i was when we lost Bryce, though i said that if i lost the baby after the 12 weeks i would be very sad, she then said Well i hope you Miss.... i cut her off straight away with it and started to yell at her, as i knew she was going to say "well i hope you miscarriage then"  I was so angry i seen red

I was only 4 weeks according to Fertility Friend i had not even been for an ultrasound so i m not even sure though with my Beta level being low like it was i really dont think the pregnancy would of went any longer even if i done everything thing i could to stop it, besides what i had done, i didnt smoke or drink coffee i was also eating right and sleeping right as well i was really going to do everything that i could to make sure i made it to the 40 weeks


though now i really dont know how to feel.... i wouldnt mind trying again once these boys are older and are less needy, though i am pretty sure that Daniel will be getting the snip now,

also on another note besides all that happening today, I dropped my brand new phone and smashed the front of it so now i cant use it.... and its less than a week old..... so now i have to get another one added to my plan or get my old phone unlocked so i can put this sim card into it,

And wait there is more
Both the boys came home with snotty noses today from daycare, so thats just great, going ot have to keep a really good eye on them as they are prown to getting bronchitis and RSV from it, so i can see if jason starts having problems breathing it will be back up to the hospital to get him checked out so if jason has something Deacan more than likely has it to......



its 6.15pm and Daniel still isnt home from work he sent me a txt at about 6ish saying he still had not left work and its about an 1 1/2  trip back so just YAY


anyway thats it for now ill chat more later

That time

Well i am guess it is coming around to that time now with Jason, and i swear not that far behind Deacan....

All of a sudden now over the past 4 to 5 days Jason has turned so naughty he does what ever he wants when he wants it doesnt matter how many times you tell him "no" or move him away from what ever he is doing that is naughty he just does right back and does it, its starting to become very tiresome and i am starting to get sick of wasting my breath,
I have tried and tried to be very patient with him as i know it is only a "stage" though he is wearing the ice very very thin,

Deacan must be going through the terrible 1's lol if there were such a thing he is now starting to scream at everything if something doesnt work as he wants to he screams and throws a nana, if he drops anything he screams, if we are not paying him enough attention he lets out a lot of screams they are very high pitched and very irritating,  he does it all the bloody time..... and there is only so much one person can take of it, i swear i would rather listen to finger nails down a chalk board.........

I guess the kids are getting board at home compared to daycare as there is more to do there than what there is here i have them in daycare 3 days a week Monday Wednesday and Friday they dont go in for long  i drop them off around 7am and pick them up by 3pm, so they have enough time to play and learn while mummy has time top clean and do everything that she needs to do,

Both the boys have their party next month i need to start organizing it., Jason is turning 2 and Deacan is turning 1 so they are having a party together easiest thing until they know the difference,

though yeah tats it at the moment will write more later when the boys are being better behaved

One of those days

Well today has just been "one of those days"

My new phone got switched over today, so i have been trying to figure out how to use it, 

tried getting most of the house work done though that didnt happen lol,

Got a call from the daycare about Deacan they said he had a bad rash and that we needed to pick him up. we wasnt able to get him in to the doctor so instead we took him up to the hospital to get checked out we were up there for about 4 hours just to find out that it was just a Viral rash though i am glad its nothing major

oh and a whole lot of drama started today on the Fertility site that i am a member of,

they all took it upon themselves to think i was TTC  just becuase i have started to chart again, and becuase i went out and brought OPK's and HTP's i brought a lot of OPK's so i can try and pin point the day that i ovulate,  ao i know thats when daniel and i have to be EXTRA careful,

Oh and because our version of BC isnt up to others standards, either we use condoms or Daneil Pulls out either way we are fine,  though even after all that crap with having to defend myself for something i should not have to i still didnt go out for a smoke or have a coffee so I am very happy with that,

SO yeah basiclly with people who dont want drama they why do they cause it themselves for? on this topic of the board there is like 60+ replies to it, and instead of people acting like ADULTS they didnt come and talk to me about it, they had to start up a topic about it,

I very rarely go on that board any more, mainly cos i am to busy to sit there and read/reply to every post there, when i do go on and check whats been said i dont reply to a lot as i don't know what to say. though still why am i even bothering to to explain myself for???

Oh and i have my blog link in my signature on there, then they turn around and say that its jsut drama ra ra ra ra, i dont remember the EXACT words that they used though to be honest i cant be bothered going on there and seeing what they have wrote, cos then i will reply to it  and then add more fuel to the fire,

So Daniel knows that i am back on Fertility Friend and that i am Charting yet, not to sure if he knows that i have OPK's though he hasnt asked about it, if he does i will tell him why,

So besides all that happening today, i havent managed to get the house clean as i have the father in law and his daughter coming over tonight for tea and possible staying the night,

So i am trying to keep all the drama and negativity away from me there has been so much of it with in the past 3 years, i dont need more of it this year,

any how thats all for now,  will update all a bit later,

More than likely the girls from FF are reading this and going to start more crap though oh well

any how chat soon

Sarah xx

How Sweet

I feel truly  blessed i really do, last night i was really shown the true kindness of people,

The 2 missionaries that come to visit, talk and to do the lessons came over at around 8ish last night, Alisa my neighbor across the road had told them that Deacan was in hospital sick and they came over last night to see if he was ok and to see if there was anything that i needed/wanted a hand with,

Honestly how sweet is that really? i truly felt blessed to know them and i am very grateful that they have come into our lives,

So Tired

I am so so so so so tired this morning
I havent been sleeping well for the past week i keep waking up during the night and finding it hard to get back to sleep,
though last night started off good, i went to bed at 8pm and i didn't wake up until Daniel started to give me a back rub cos he woke up horny,

So i done the good wife thing and gave him sex even though i didn't want it, then it took me forever to get back to sleep, mind you its 1am at this point (when he woke me up) then deacan started on and off though i didnt go in and get him up cos he was just whining though he got up at 4am though fell back asleep on his bottle

I think today after i drop the kids at daycare i will come home and go back to bed..... or ill do the house work, then sleep

2011 bring it on

All I can say is bring on 2011

All i want to do is bring on the new year, with any luck it has to be better than this one, I know there are people worse off out there than me though this year has been one hell of a year and by the looks of it, it isnt going to end well :(

I really dont know what to do any more or just how much more of anything i can take,

The kids are ok they are just being kids, demanding and much more needy at the moment, and they just want more than what i can give,I spend lost of time with Jason and Deacan a lot of one on one time and a lot of group play with them, though it just seems like its not enough for them, they just keep draining me, i know its just a child thing and its part and parcel of having children, its just draining thats all

Work is going good, though i am going to start looking for a full time job instead of the casual job that i have that way if i need to have time off because the children are sick or because I am i know that i will still get paid for it, though work to has its moments as well, i am meant to get 1 sale per hour that i work, though with leading up to Christmas people just didnt want to do it, knowing to well that it would void their warranty,  though i am hoping that the new year people will want to do it so i dont loose my job, i have asked my father in law to pass the word around and to get people to give me a call if they want something done and to ask for me specially and gave him the hours that i work so if they do call and want to book something in i get it and not one of the other girls,and also so it looks good on me because i am keeping up with my KPI's I really dont mind the work that i do it is as hard as you want to make it and as easy as you want to make it,

As for Daniel and I thats a whole different entry that i will make later,

so much has happened in 2010 i just want it to be over with like yeah good stuff has happened like the birth of beautiful Deacan, Jason starting to walk and grow up now, i am very grateful that both the boys are still here as we have had our ups and downs with them and there has been quite a few very close calls for them

though all i can say is bring on 2011 

The Boys

Well i thought it was about time to give you all an update on the boys, They are both going really well
Jason is now walking full time very rarely crawls at all, and now Deacan is trying to crawl, He gets himself up on all 4's and rocks, plus mind you he also rolls all over the ground, and is trying to talk now,
Jason now feeds himself its very messy when he does though at least he is trying, still finding it hard to get him to eat new foods though, he is a really fussy eater, though we will keep trying whats the worse he is going to do? not eat it????
Deacan will eat almost anything that you put in front of him he really loves his food and doesnt seem to be fussy one bit, also he is trying to talk now, it sounds so cute,
Jason now comes out with "Dont touch" and shakes his pointer as he says it

Update

Well i havent posted in here for a while so i thought its about time that i update everyone with whats happening in my world,

First off, Jason is now walking YAY its so cute to see him walk, he isnt walking you or I at the moment though he is taking a good couple of steps everywhere he wants to go, he walks now before he crawls, Jason is also taking less bottles now, so i think it might be the time to start upping the juice and only having bottles when its sleep time and as soon as he gets up, Also going to start toilet training soon as he is starting to show signs,

Secondly Deacan is now trying to crawl and he gets cranky when he cant he spends a lot of time on his belly now, and is eating at least 2 tins of solids a day, we are also teething now to, so i am really enjoying be up every morning at either 2 or 3am NOT

Job hunting is going good, I have applied for a lot of jobs and i have an interview tomorrow im looking forward to it though i am not going to get my hopes up, as i did with surpree as she made it sound like i was going to get a position and i never did, so fingers crossed this one works out well,

I have been trying to sort my "friends" out on facebook as i did have over 600 though a lot of them were from game apps, though now i am sorting people in categories of "Family" "Friends" "Close Friends" then game apps I.E farmvill, Cafe World etc, i also have a lot of random adds on there and i am over everyone knowing whats going on, as when i post some stuff i dont want everyone seeing it, so now i just select certain groups that can see it, I sent out a message to everyone to let me know what game apps they play and also what categories they fall under, its strange that just how many people just dont understand.... if people cant take the time to jsut send me a message saying then i dont think i have the time to have them on my list so i have given everyone 2 weeks to reply and if they dont the are getting deleted i dont care who they are,

So thats pretty much everything that has been happening i know a boring life LMFAO,

Amusing

I find it quite amusing and ironic that people tell me how i should be raising my kids, and what i am doing wrong and how my kids should be acting and what they should be doing,
Like yeah Jason is behind other kids his age though you no what  HE WAS PREM, Jason is classed as a micro prem as he was 15 weeks premature, he is doing a great job with what he is doing, considering he shouldn't even be here though yeah im not doing a good enough job, People only seem to notice the things that Jason isnt doing they never seem to notice the things that he IS doing, we do our best, we really do, he is doing get and coming along nicely like yeah he isnt walking yet though wont be long until he is, He is still having alot of bottles during the day though i know 2 year olds and 3 year olds that still have a lot of bottles during the day, Yeah he isnt eating proper  food yeah (really chunky food), yeah that ones is my fault as when he was young he would choke on his food so i didnt want push him with it so he stayed on puree foods, after loosing a child, then your next child shouldnt be with you as they should not of made it you tend to be quite mothering and wrap them up in cotton wool though yeah that ones my fault, though now he is getting more teeth he is eating a lot better,
People really need to practice what they preach they really do... like yeah Jason is a bit of a handful, though how about instead of criticizing my parenting how about they look at their own, im not the only one with unruly kids god no one is perfect,
We have learnt with what we have dont wrong with Jason so we are not making the same mistakes with Deacan, though you show me a perfict mother or father and i will show you a lier, no child is born with a hand book so suck it up and get off my back, we do the best we can,
Until anyone else has a micro prem and can bring them up to speed with other kids their age at the same time then yeah you can tell me what to do, though for all you that dont get the hell off my back

eBay

SO i am finding it alot easier to sell things on eBay, then what it is to have a garage sale though we have so many things that need to go i need to clear out the spare room for Deacan i am starting to think about putting the collection i have of teddies up im sure they will go with out a problem, there is just so much stuff that Daniel and I have that we no longer need or use,

Q.. What has your eBay experience been like? and what have you been on there to find?

Clearing out

So I have been going through all of Jason and Deacan's Baby stuff, and i am clearing out all the stuff they do not use or wear, ive decided the best thing to do is to put it on eBay,
im even going through all of Daniel and I's stuff to as the house seem so cluttered though we didnt think we had that much stuff lol.
Though everything we no longer need/want and is still in good condition I am going to put it on there,I am about to make my first sale on eBay as well its kinda exciting lol

Any way just thought i would make a quick post gotta go tend to Deacan

some people

I really swear some people jsut do not think i really do... or they do though dont understand how much their comments are just plain nasty i recived this comment i think either today or yesterday

Well the dr did say not to get pregnant agIn... Because he new you would have Nother premmie baby... But you were selfish & took that risk anyways to have another baby. So now you haveto deal with the consequences of them being sick with their low immune systems


this was in responce to me posting this

WTF is it with people really? im over it i truely am
Yes my son is back on hosptial
Yes he is sick again...
Why do people keep blaming me for them getting sick for?
DO you really think i like my children being i hospital?
DO you really think i like it that they are sick and unhappy?
I cant help it if they keep getting sick, i do the best i can for htem,
I give them gold formula so they get extra vitimans and minerals, they are also fulling immunised, and i also give them pentivite **extra vitimans** becuase i have them in day careWe are in winter here so its been really cold and yuck, so i keep them rugged up, the heater is always on keeping them warm and with deacan he always has a blanket on him,So beofre ANY of you want to start running your mouth how about you shut it first,
Both of my sons are prem babies, so thier immune system is lower than the average baby,
Seriously is any of uyou can do better please let me know
As i am sure you all have mother and father of the year awards


This really annoys me it really does... how was i being selfish really??? daniel and i were taking precautions i was on contraceptive like bloody hell

i didnt have the heart to have an abortion i really didnt i thought about it though didnt have one.... after burying a child its not easy to "kill" another one like some people really need to think before they talk

and to top it off the person who posted that comment has been evicted TWICE in 6 months, ALSO has the money to go out and get her hair dyed all pretty, her nails done also has money to buy a lot of fancy camera stuff though she is "selfish" enough to spend her money on her and not the rent LMFAO practice what you preach love

Sorry guys

Im sorry guys that i have not posted for a while, things have been Very busy for me,
With both Jason and Deacan teething, plus with myself looking for work, and i now have laryngitis and really feel like crap !!!!!!!! though oh well no use complaining now one listens as they say lol,
Jason is doing great he is coming along so far and fast now :) he now drinks out of a sippy cup properly its so cute and he is getting really fast with teh crawling and he now stands all by himself wont be long now until he is walking he now only has one sleep through the day, though still thinks he needs more as he is an utter grump during the day later on after his sleep lol

Deacan slept through the night last night for the very first time though he was good and drank a whopping 280ml out of his bottle no wonder he slept the whole night lol,  also have him on solids now he loves them :)

Baby Things

Im really debating if I should get rid of all the baby stuff that Deacan grows out of or if i should just keep it all,
like the big stuff that is like the bassinet and so forth, cos i guess having another child isnt 100% out of the question it just is at the moment, how do we know what is going to happen in 2 to 3 years down the track?
Plus i dont wan to part with some of it :( some of it has a bit of history with it, like the baby clothes yeah i can just give them away to other people that are having kids, as i have done already, cos baby clothes are easy enough to get

Really over it

Im just so over everything i really am, Im over being ingored, im over being treated like crap, im over being expected to do everything, im over being expected to drop everything and come running when anyone says...

Do people no realize that i have my own life and that i am not here to service them?

I have my own stuff to worry about, i have my own stresses to worry about have you ever thought of that? how about you come running when ever i say how about you drop everything when i want you to,,,,

Everything is just getting to much it really is, the boys, life, marriage, looking for work, bills,
I hate how i am expected to everything just a little help is all i am asking for,
I was lucky enough that my father in law peter was about to take Deacan for the night, as he is picking up on everything and becoming a down right handful also doesnt help that he is teething and has a bad case of colic as well,
Daniel and I are seeming to argue a lot and thats just adding to everything i am so sick of him spending so much time on the computer its jsut insane, i ask him to do something usally when i ask him to do something with the boys i need them to be done there and then though no its when he is ready like if jason or deacan has a shitty bum he cant go and change it right there and then has to wait or a snotty nose,
daniel wonders why i am so tired all the time, i spend most of the day cleaning, doing dishes, bottles, washing, lookin after the 2 boys, driving like 80km a day, now add working on top of that, well trying to find a job first any how...

Work

So ill be looking a returning back to work soon, I need to update my resume though how can i make 16 months of home duties look good lol
as i haven't worked for the last 16 months because of having Jason and Deacan,
Im kinda scared about going back to work as i haven't worked in so long though also looking forward to it as well

being Selfish?

I often wonder if i am being selfish or pig headed or unreasonable, 
I think sometimes that people dont understand me or how i feel, or what i want out of life, and this is where it comes in i think i am being selfish

I want to know that my life has some purpose to it, and that i am ment to be here for a reason, like to get me worng i am happy with my life though i guess i want more with it, I would love for it to have more meaning that what it does i guess,
I know i have meaning and purpose to my 3 little gorges boys, and to my husband that i think loves me, though not 100% sure on that one as i dont get told it that often,

And i guess i am also being selfish as i hate being told how many kids i can have, I would love to have a lot more children, I am VERY happy with my 3 boys, though i would like to have more, and Daniel has said NO out right to any more children, is it selfish to want more than what we know we can have?
I know there is a good chance that every pregnancy can either take my life or the babies lives, and i know that it is being selfish as i know this can happen yet i want more,
I guess for me being told NO to children is like putting a beer infront of an alcoholic and telling/demanding they can not drink it,  i guess it just hurts more than anything
I know i would really love a happy ending as well, maybe i already have mine though i am to blind or pig headed to see it, i want more out of life than what i have, i want to do more with my life, i want my life to have meaning.. I have always been told that everyone is here for a reason if that is true than what is my reason? What was Bryce's reason? what is Jason's reason? What is Deacan's Reason? or Daniels reason? do we all have one?
I guess i just have been doing way way way to much thinking, though yeah just being honest with everything,
As i said this could be classed as being selfish or pig headed or what not, though yeah